VidTarget on Tim Schmoyer’s Video Creators Podcast

Tim Schmoyer Dane Golden

TRANSCRIPT

Announcer:

Welcome to the Video Creators Podcast. This show is all about helping you grow your YouTube audience and the business that surrounds it so that you can continue to spread your message, change people’s lives and earn the money that makes it all sustainable. Here’s your YouTube certified expert Tim Schmoyer.

Tim Schmoyer:

Hello creators. How are you guys? It’s great to hang out with you again for another video creators podcast, where we are going to talk specifically to those of you guys who are growing a business on your YouTube channel. You already have this business going, and you’re using YouTube as a way of monetizing, of growing, of generating leads for your business.

Tim Schmoyer:

There’s a lot of common mistakes and a lot of common myths things that more Business Creator person that believes and really dives into, and commits to that really just kind of actually, isn’t what you need to be doing. It’s actually, those things are probably holding you back and making it harder for you to grow. So if you are in that category, you’re a Business Creator. You’re growing on YouTube in order to grow your business, this is exactly the podcast episode for you. We’re going to dive into all those things and give you …

Tim Schmoyer:

We’re going to correct the things that you’re doing wrong, and then give you practical ideas and tips and suggestions and ideas for how to fix those things and do them correctly going forward, so you gain momentum, you grow your channel, you get more subscribers, generate more leads, grow the business, and ultimately reach more people and change their lives. This is what we’re here for most. So I’m really excited to dive into that with you guys here today. And I’m especially excited to do that because we’re going to dive in with a friend of mine, Mr. Dane Golden. Hey Dane, how are you?

Dane Golden:

I’m doing great, Tim. Great to be here.

Tim Schmoyer:

It is so good to see you again. For those of you guys who don’t know, Dane and I go way back, like how far back Dane? I don’t even know, like …

Dane Golden:

There were dinosaurs and sea slugs roaming the earth.

Tim Schmoyer:

I know we’ve connected before, but the first time that I remember that we actually sat down and had a conversation was actually at VidCon maybe 20 … Let’s see, no. It wasn’t 2000-

Dane Golden:

Probably 2012.

Tim Schmoyer:

Was it? About eight years ago now? I think that sounds about right.

Dane Golden:

Yeah, but even before that, even before that.

Tim Schmoyer:

Oh, the ReelSummit, right?

Dane Golden:

Could have been.

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. It was a long time ago.

Dane Golden:

Even before that I was running a YouTube channel for, so I’d come from live streaming and podcasting for a tech podcasting company and I was working for an ad agency on a very big ad account. I can’t say what this ad account is, but it rhymes with MeBay and what I was doing was I was doing it very, very badly and it was a big account that they had asked me to help on, and I said I really got to figure this YouTube thing out, and I started watching Real SEO and you on Real SEO.

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. Prior to Video Creators.

Dane Golden:

And I started figuring it out. And I dedicated my professional life to help businesses do better on YouTube.

Tim Schmoyer:

So what are you up to these days? I mean, you’ve been around YouTube and business for a long time, online Content Creators. What are you up to? The kind of specific context that we’re going to talk about here.

Dane Golden:

Okay. Just really shortly, people may know me from HEY.com. We sold that recently and we sort of split into two companies now. VidiUp is sort of the evolution of HEY.com, but we also started this new business that I’m talking about today called VidTarget, which is how you do ads in a targeted way on YouTube and also how you integrate that with your organic, meaning non-paid discoverable and community videos, which is what you emphasize.

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. So the aim for those of you guys who don’t know, Dane used to help us out here at Video Creators with our client work. So he’s one of the people that I know and trust to even work with some of our clients and we’re very thankful for Dane when he jumped in and helped us out in a pinch when the business was growing faster than we could keep up with. And so Dane’s like one of the good guys on YouTube, he knows what he’s talking about, especially when it comes to this niche we’re about to talk about today, which is the business side. Like Dane, that’s his sweet spot, that his bread and butter, is how do you use YouTube to grow your business? And he does that all day every day with people and now helping them in a more scalable way through vidtarget.io. So if you guys want to check it out, link to that down in the show notes and we’re going to dive into that here.

[client segment removed]

Dane Golden:

Hi, Tim.

Tim Schmoyer:

What is a Business Creator versus a Content Creator? We’ve been kind of throwing that term around a little bit, but lets kind of make sure we’re on the same page.

Dane Golden:

Right, and these definitions are not hard and fast, and with Video Creators, a lot of times you talk about how you can turn your YouTube channel into a business. And there’s another group of people that also follow you, that they have a business and they want to use YouTube to grow their business. And of course, there’s a bit of overlap and each are both good in their own ways, but I sort of thought that the Business Creator was not getting focused on enough and we work with so many of these types of people that I thought maybe Tim’s audience would like to hear about these.

Tim Schmoyer:

Absolutely. Yeah. So it’s like, if you start with the business and then go to YouTube, you’re this Business Creator, but if you just start on YouTube with like, hey, I’m going to do this and do a revenue thing and your kind of baking on ad sense and Patreon and brand deals and sponsorships and things like that then you’re more likely a Content Creator, who is kind of going more after like a media company business model versus say product and services business model.

Dane Golden:

Yeah. And there’s a ton of hybrids too, but I thought, let’s talk about businesses that come to YouTube to promote their businesses.

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. So there’s a lot of these people who are doing things wrong, and I know you and I both spend their time helping them overcome some of those things. What have you seen in your experience are like the top myths, the things that they believe, the mistakes they’re making, that they really need to address and fix to move forward with growing their channels?

Dane Golden:

Okay. So myth number one, I know you’re going to like this and your audience is going to have heard this before, what you believe as a business doesn’t matter, right Tim?

Tim Schmoyer:

Well, it depends on what we’re talking about or believing. If we believe our products matter, that matters, but where are you going with it?

Dane Golden:

Well, some businesses think, well, as a business, we can help anyone under the sun. We wanted to just get more and more people. So it doesn’t matter what we feel, what we believe, what we stand for, what are our core beliefs, but in reality, particularly on YouTube, that this bond between the YouTube Business Creator or the channel is so much stronger, and this is something you advocate for. And as Patrick Hanlon’s core plank or whatever, is that when people share these common beliefs, these core values, that’s really good at forming a strong loyal customer. Would you agree with that?

Tim Schmoyer:

Oh yeah. Like kind of what we were just talking about with Mike, whereas like he’s forming an emotional connection with people. And one of the best ways to do that is to share what you believe because the strongest community is online and offline. They don’t revolve around common interests. They revolve around shared beliefs. And so when you say what you believe in, and you stand for something, you’re making it possible now for other people to stand with you and link arms with you and your brand, and really want to become an advocate of what you’re doing. So absolutely.

Dane Golden:

Myth number two, it’s all about eyeballs. So a lot of times businesses come to YouTube and they’re like, well, we just need more attention. And so they say, “Well, let’s just get eyeballs,” more people watching. But in reality the thing about YouTube is that it’s somewhat of a social platform built around interest in videos. And you can pay to get people to watch your videos, but if it’s the wrong people or they don’t watch for very long, your channel’s going to tank and your business is not going to do very well.

Tim Schmoyer:

I talk about this. I think this comes up in almost every conversation where people are like, “I want to accomplish this thing,” every consultation they used to say, “I’m trying to accomplish this thing on YouTube,” and they think that more exposure equals better results. But all you have to do is I use this like example, I say, is it better to be in front of a football stadium of all the wrong people or in front of 10 of the right people? And everyone’s like, “Well, it’s better being in front of 10 of the right people.” It’s like, “Right.” So don’t chase the views, chase your most ideal customer, chase that specific person that you’re going after and craft a strategy around getting that person, rather than trying to get as many views as possible.

Tim Schmoyer:

And I know it’s attention is like, “Oh, my boss wants we get all these many views as possible, but I’m telling him we could do this thing and get a lot of views, but it’s not really the right people. They’re subscribing for the wrong reason.” So there is attention, but I think what you’re saying Dane is sacrifice eyeballs completely for the sake of being like quantity wise and for quality, being in front of the right people.

Dane Golden:

And that leads us into our next myth. Number three, the instant success paradox. So this myth is that businesses can just come in a YouTube and they’re like, I’m a big business, I’ve got more money and we can do fancier production. We can look at how beautiful these videos are or they can just do really expensive ads and get lots of views and subs. You talked about this in fact on the most recent podcast, just not true, right?

Tim Schmoyer:

No. I tell this story many times with the creator is actually … So real quick for anyone who hasn’t heard of it. It’s six full-time people on their channel shooting an 8K RED epic cameras in a commercial kitchen, is a vegan channel, commercial kitchen with a paid actress who is vegan. All of these people had Hollywood television production backgrounds. They’d publish one video very consistently every week for a year. And at the end of the year, they did the consultation with us and was like, “How come we’ve put hundreds of thousands of dollars into this channel and our top video only has 24 views, but there’s this person in his basement with a webcam getting millions. They’re like, what the heck?” And so yeah, whether it’s instant success paradox, or it’s like, I need fancier equipment or having some production background equal success on YouTube, it’s just not true. Yeah.

Dane Golden:

And I just wanted to add on top of that because you have three different pillars to your types of videos, which is the discoverable videos, the community videos and the sales videos. So even if someone comes in with a huge budget for sales and they’re doing good videos, which is part of the things we help them with on VidTarget, we still advocate that they need to have a good YouTube channel, because what happens when you watch a good ad, you don’t always click on the first time, you do a YouTube search, you do a Google search, and these businesses say, “Huh, we’ve seen a lot of traffic, Google traffic to our website or to our YouTube channel that’s not coming through our ads.” Well, what’s happening is the ads is making people know about you, but they want to know more. So you still have to do those great community and discoverable videos on your channel.

Tim Schmoyer:

Right. And you also need to include everything else we’ve already talked about, which is like the emotional engagement, knowing who your target audiences, things like that.

Dane Golden:

And the fourth myth is that views are the most important thing. And this sort of leads into the previous myth because businesses think, I just need a ton of views to be successful, but really you need the right views. For instance, if I told you, you could get a million views tomorrow. Yeah, I can do that. You can do that. We just run some ads. But then if I said, “Listen, is it okay if all of those views were from teenage Malaysian gamers?” Which I’ve got nothing against Malaysian gamers, they’re great.

Tim Schmoyer:

They might be your target audience.

Dane Golden:

If you’re only selling women’s cosmetics into the United States, that might not be the right audience. So really it’s the type of view that matters. Myth number five, production values are key. We sort of covered that before that you don’t need a whole production team. It’s really the basic production. You can do fine.

Dane Golden:

Myth number six. Now, this is something that’s very specific to businesses. Some believe, we don’t need a point person for our YouTube strategy within the company. Anyone can upload a video, whatever. If we make a video, let’s just have someone put it on YouTube. But in fact that really creates a problem because there are so many types of videos that don’t work well on YouTube.

Tim Schmoyer:

Such as what?

Dane Golden:

What do you think? Have you seen this Tim?

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. I’ve worked with a couple of different brands who have one. Sometimes I do have a point person who’s in charge, but they’re getting mixed signals from different departments about what their goals are and what needs to go up and what shouldn’t go up. And there’s not really a gatekeeper who gets to veto anything. It’s all about like, they’re just kind of more the robot than they are anything, so I think what you’re saying is you need someone who can kind of pioneer the channel and be the gatekeeper of what goes up, what doesn’t, who are we reaching here. This offers value. This doesn’t, this just is like a commercial. This is an hour and a half webinar that no one cares about. And that someone can say those things. And very few, even big brands that we’ve worked with like Fortune 500 companies have someone like that. They have someone in charge of it, but not someone who gets to make the ultimate calls about how do we actually grow this.

Dane Golden:

Yeah. I mean, it’s somehow with video. Oh, because it’s video it all has to, and that’s my next myth is that if it’s video, it has to all live on YouTube. Well, just because someone in your company wrote a nice email doesn’t mean that goes on your blog. Just somehow video, everything must be on YouTube, but that is one situation. I know you don’t emphasize the algorithm too much, but that is one situation where I think you upload every webinar or every live performance or whatever the thing is, this can actually really hurt you in the algorithm.

Dane Golden:

So moving on to myth eight, you should upload a bad video if that’s all you got, because you got to do something every week and businesses will do this. I don’t know if you know about this, but businesses will just say, “Well, we got to do one every week because that’s what the algorithm does.” And as you’ve said, some channels do very well, just uploading once a month if it’s a great video. It’s more important that you upload every week because you’re communicating and building a community, but if it’s a bad video or something that doesn’t work, it’s not what you should be uploading.

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. I mean, people think like, just put something is better than nothing. You’re like, no, sometimes nothing is better than something, depending on what you’re publishing. So yeah, the algorithm doesn’t … I know a lot of people don’t agree with this, but I feel 110% confident that the algorithm does not care how often you upload. It cares how well people respond to what you do upload. Whether that be every month, every other month, four times a year, if it’s just really solid content and people respond very favorably to it, it’s going to be surfaced, but yeah.

Dane Golden:

But you should be uploading, not because of the algorithm, but because you’re building community and internally as a business, you have to do something every week if you’re prioritizing it, or it’ll just get to the end of the list and never get done.

Tim Schmoyer:

Right. You’re showing up for the people who are your brand advocates, and you’re making it easier for more people to become brand advocates or potential customers, more opportunities to grow, know, like and trust factors. I don’t know how many people that we’ve worked with who are like Tim, I’ve been following you for years. I’ve been listening, got a lot from you and it took a few years for them to get to the point where they trust us enough or they’ve grown enough or whatever the case may be to be at the point, like I feel stuck, I’m ready to unlock growth here and then work with us. So we show up every single week for the past seven years now, been more … seven and a half years to help people. And yeah, so if you’re only doing it four times a year, the people who are showing up in front of your target audience more often will be the ones you win in that regard.

Dane Golden:

Yeah. And then there’s just the opposite. This is the opposite myth is that, hey, as a business, we have all of these videos done. We send them to the editor. Fantastic. We got him delivered on a Friday. Now, let’s upload all eight videos that this editor has done because you know what? People will see them on YouTube. It doesn’t matter. It’s always there. And we advocate for just the opposite. That you need to strategy. You need to have them come out over time, because what happens if people see eight videos from you on a Friday night.

Dane Golden:

Some businesses do better on weekends, some do worse, you have to know your business. But I think it’s important for some businesses to post during the week. But if you get eight videos, what happens? You go to your app and you see eight videos from your same business, they don’t love you that much. Maybe like one video a week from you, but [crosstalk 00:28:25].

Tim Schmoyer:

Dane, this is some tough love right here. You’re saying some hard truth. Nobody loves you that much, that’s going to be the featured quote of this episode.

Dane Golden:

That’s fine, that’s fine because it’s true. I mean, they may like your business. They may come but they don’t like your eight videos a week good, generally, not eight videos-

Tim Schmoyer:

Especially if you think, if they’re all posted pretty randomly, the viewer for sure is going to feel like this is pretty random I don’t think they’ll watch all of these. And you’re especially doing yourself a disservice. Usually it’s been my experience that people who do upload in bulk all at once, like that typically aren’t taking the time to do custom thumbnails and aren’t thinking much about their titles either, which means they’re just really not thinking or positioning themselves for growth.

Tim Schmoyer:

And they all kind of end up with a similar thumbnail and similar titles and not one of the eight videos stands out any more than the rest. So it’s just kind of like, if people did want to watch content from that brand and that business and they’re like, “Which one do I pick? I don’t know.” And then they don’t pick any of them, so yeah, don’t do it all at once.

Dane Golden:

Yeah, YouTube is not Netflix. No one’s waiting for your video in the same way they’re for the return of the Walking Dead or whatever show they love or Stranger Things or whatever. And it’s also not drop box where you just upload things, willy nilly, you need a strategy.

Tim Schmoyer:

That’s right.

Dane Golden:

And the next myth is a view. And do you think most people know that any YouTube video can be made into an ad and that you don’t know as a viewer, which views are coming from an ad and which aren’t?

Tim Schmoyer:

Like the consumer, like the target audience doesn’t know if it’s a view coming?

Dane Golden:

The general viewer, even people who are, manage channels, they may not know that views are not all made alike.

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. So if you get like an ad targeted view, it has been our experience that they are not, I don’t want to use the word worth, but they don’t perform nearly the same way as an organic viewer does. And so you can pay a lot of money and get a lot of views, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to help your channel, depending on how you do the ads and the strategy and the goal behind it and things like that. But yeah, not all views are created equal.

Dane Golden:

And that’s one of the reasons we started this company by the way, is that it’s designed to help you do targeted ads. That is, so you don’t just pay for a whole bunch of stuff, but you do need to run ads to do sales videos. You don’t have to, but it helps. But some people just look at like one view and say, you have to report to your boss and say, “Hey, look, I got a million views, problem solved,” but a view is not a view is what I’m saying. There’s any number of ways.

Tim Schmoyer:

And then your boss is like, “A million views. That’s great. How many are they converted?” You’d be like, “0%.” “What are you doing wrong?” Right? Like if you’re ultimately going after conversions here, that’s the better metric to be tracking because I think that will be a better indicator of how well you’re reaching your target audience and getting in front of the right people versus just getting a lot of random people.

Dane Golden:

Yeah. Again, my favorite gamers in Asia may not be the target audience. We love them, but they just may not be who we’re selling to.

Tim Schmoyer:

Right.

Dane Golden:

So yeah, same business metrics should matter. Are you making sales? If you get a click, is it as valuable as this click, from which source. You need to be sourcing these things and most businesses don’t even think about that stuff, no matter how smart they are about their other business metrics. It’s really strange when it comes to YouTube. Which brings me to myth number 11, that clicking off is the goal of any YouTube video. And I would say, you would say just the opposite, even if it’s paid video, right?

Tim Schmoyer:

I don’t know pay. I mean, that could be anything, what your goal could be there. But yeah, like everybody, not everybody, but a lot of people make their videos with multiple goals. So it’s like, I want every video to get a lot of views. I want to get a lot of subscribers. I want it to generate a lot of leads to my email list. I want it to generate sales. I want to go big on Reddit. I wanted to rank number one. I want it to get a lot of comments. I want everyone to smash some like buttons. I want to … And I’m like, “Whoa, hold on.” Nowhere else in marketing world do we make that mistake of trying to make one piece of content do 15 different things. Let’s just make one goal.

Tim Schmoyer:

You mentioned this earlier Dane in our discovery community sales strategy, overall strategy that we usually implement with clients. The goal of the sales video is to drive traffic offline, off of YouTube into a website or buy, download, register, or sign up whatever the case might be. But if it’s in every video, then you’ll have a hard time generating sales or generating growth on the channel and getting new people in that will then see the sales video and then take the action. Because YouTube system, social discovery systems really don’t like surfacing content that ends the viewing session on YouTube. So if that’s the goal of every video is going to be hard to get some traction, assuming people will take you up on that offer of course. If they don’t, you can still get views, you’re like, “Oh, this is awesome.” But I’m like, “Well, it means your call to action at the end is not very effective.” So one of those two things.

Dane Golden:

Even in a sales video, sometimes it’s actually better if they … I mean, you want in a direct response video for them to click, but sometimes they may come to your regular YouTube channel, find out more, they may search for you. You may want to re-target them in some way, and then they’re better prepared as a customer after they’ve seen more than one ad.

Tim Schmoyer:

That’s right. Yeah. You can hit them a few times.

Dane Golden:

This one, you’ll love this one, Tim. Myth number 12 is tell them how great you are. My business is awesome. I am, I sell millions of dollars every year. You should work with me because I am awesome, look at this Ferrari behind me.

Tim Schmoyer:

That I rented it for two hours, quick, you got to get all our shots in.

Dane Golden:

So the thing is, is that whether you’re doing paid or organic, people don’t care about your business. You’ve said this before, they care about how your business can help them, right?

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. I think telling people how great you are and your success is okay if you’re trying to establish credibility with someone who is already a little bit more familiar with you, but I don’t think it’s a great like you said. People need to know how can you help me first and then I’ll be more interested, are you credible about this? But if it just comes right off the bat, like it’s immediately, this is what we’ve done, this is how famous we are, is how popular we are, this is what we’re … then people are like, that’s nice, like what does that mean for me? I don’t know yet. So answer that question first and then use the credibility pieces after that, I think.

Dane Golden:

Yes. You want to demonstrate how you’ve helped people, but just because you have a Ferrari doesn’t mean you can help me or you can rent a Ferrari doesn’t mean you can help me.

Tim Schmoyer:

That’s right.

Dane Golden:

Myth number 13, you have to be cool. Hey, that’s where the kids are. You have to be cool on YouTube to win. I just don’t agree with that. I believe you don’t have to be cool, you just have to be helpful.

Tim Schmoyer:

I know. Look at you and me Dane. I’m not that cool.

Dane Golden:

I’m not cool.

Tim Schmoyer:

You’re not that cool. We’re both kind of just, two guys trying to help people the best that we can. And hopefully it’s benefiting and changing a lot of people’s lives. And I think that’s actually what people care about more is like, what’s the heart, the belief, the message, the thing that you’re going after here, more so than like, is that person got the fancy clothes and the cars and the skateboard or whatever. I don’t really know if it’s cool. They were cool back in the ’80s when I was a kid, I don’t know if they still are today.

Dane Golden:

Whatever the car. I have fun, we’re going to take some questions, right?

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. Let’s jump into those. But you got one more you want to hit?

Dane Golden:

Our bonus myth is that it costs a lot right away. And that is, I think it’s wrong. That you don’t have to allocate a big budget and do or die right away on YouTube, whether you’re doing the organic, building a YouTube channel even if you’re doing paid, it’s better to grow gradually than all at once because you try to grow all at once, you’re going to make mistakes and you’re going to waste a lot of budget.

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. It’s one of the biggest money wasters there is, is just diving into that stuff without having a plan or a strategy, or just measuring the wrong things.

Tim Schmoyer:

Well, we got some questions for you, Dane. The first one is actually a super chat. Thank you, Smart Drive Test. “Thanks Tim. Thanks Dane. Great information about a business with YouTube. With your help, we’ve built a great community that grows new drivers pass their license tests. We’re in the process of reinventing, thanks. Cheers, Rick.” Awesome. I guess that wasn’t a question that was just like, thank you for your help and your welcome. Thank you for being a part of our community here with us, Rick.

Dane Golden:

Yep, so that’s great. So this person has a channel that they help people get their driver’s license and you taught them how to do that.

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. I remember having a consultation with him like two years ago. You have to remind me Rick, was a year or two ago. I don’t remember, but I remember we did talk and we were working through that and helping him grow that business with his YouTube channel.

Dane Golden:

You are literally saving the lives from poorly driving teen drivers, Tim.

Tim Schmoyer:

Well, my kids are going to get there one day, so we’ve got to make it safe now. I got only one though.

Dane Golden:

You need to help them start watching this channel right away.

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. You do it, that was super chat says, “What’s up, Dane?”

Dane Golden:

John.

Tim Schmoyer:

“You’re the best, love you brother.”

Dane Golden:

Hello, John.

Tim Schmoyer:

John loves you. He says you’re the best. I don’t know. I guess that makes me second best, which is fine. I can take that.

Dane Golden:

I am second best on this channel.

Tim Schmoyer:

You can be the best on this channel. My ego can take that. No problem. In fact, it can be a relief. It’ll be a little less pressure. Eugen C Popa. Hey man, good to see you. I think we both know Eugen, “Dane, how is VidTarget different from other companies that offer the same type of service? Some of these are on deals right now as lifetime deal equals you pay once and have it for life.” So you’re going to give a pitch for VidTarget, how does is it different for now?

Dane Golden:

Yeah. Thank you for asking. Yeah, so it’s really quite simple. What VidTarget does is you can target specific video placement. So for instance, if you only wanted to target videos where people were learning how to drive for instance, we create a list for you and you upload that as placements. That’s one thing YouTube doesn’t help you do quite as well and we’re trying to fill a gap there. So you have this huge list of placements of videos that are just targeting that, or you can target a channel. So I just want to target channels about people teaching how to drive or your keywords, which is a little bit easier to do on YouTube, but we just make it easy. Take that time away, make it simple for you.

Dane Golden:

You spend about 10, 15 minutes and you’ve got your list and you can update it when new videos come out once a month, you can come back and update it and that’s what we do and I’d love for the questioner to message me directly and help me build the product make it better.

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. DIY Jean asks, “Is it a mistake to broaden your niche audience so that you broaden your reach?” I think it kind of goes back to what we were talking about, Dane with being in front of the right people versus being in front of a lot of people, how would you answer that question broadly?

Dane Golden:

I would go to something you talk about all the time is what did they believe? For instance, if they believed that the joy of birthday cakes was what that … that’s what they think is, everyone should have a birthday cake and that’s what brings joy and that’s core to us. But if they really thought that we believe in baking and people should have the right types of wheat and whatever, if that was really core that, that’s what makes people happy is a morning piece of bread or all these other things, then they should expand. But if they don’t, then don’t expand. Did what I say makes sense at all?

Tim Schmoyer:

I think so. I think what you’re saying is like, if broadening your audience, your niche make sense in the regard that like, those are still the people you’re trying to reach then great. Personally, to kind of give you guys-

Dane Golden:

That’s the thing you like to talk about.

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. I am, give maybe the opposite example of this DIY Jean is what I’m currently doing on video creators, well, I’m experimenting with, let me put it that way. I think I have a video coming out here in a few weeks so I’ll go in them there some more in depth. But back when we started Video Creators in 2007, no, no, no, no, no, not 2007, 2000. I started YouTube 2006, but we started Video Creators in 2013. Yeah. So seven years ago, that’s what I was going for. We were just going after people who are trying to grow their YouTube audience and focusing primarily on that hobby creator as we called it then.

Tim Schmoyer:

Now, there’s not really a such thing as a hobby creator. It’s like everyone has like some sort of revenue goal one way or another, whether you’re growing a business or you’re growing a media company and part of that’s on YouTube or whatever. And so we’ve had to change who our target audience is and how we talk to that person over the years as our audience has grown and evolved. And now we’re doing another experiment like, should we go to the more specific and those YouTube creators who have 10,000 plus subscribers who are looking to, how do I grow? I’ve got an audience now, I’m getting people to subscribe and consume for free, now how do I get them to take that next level interaction with us? Should be to make a transaction of some kind, how do I grow a business around this audience that I have?

Tim Schmoyer:

So we’re getting even more specific, even more specific than what Dane’s addressing here, which is the people who have a business and are now trying to grow on YouTube we’re focusing like, can we serve that person who has grown on YouTube and now needs to figure out how to build a business. So it’s getting more and more and more specific. So yes, we’re getting more specific and more niche down, but that’s not a mistake. It means our views are going to go down. It’s a much smaller audience than the people who are like, how do I press record on my camera? And how do I upload on my first thumbnail? Like those would get the most amount of traction from a view perspective. But going back to what we said before, we want to be in front of the right people, so we’re making content for that person.

Tim Schmoyer:

And we expect our views to go down. We also expect our downloads to go down, but we’re hoping to see our average view durations go up and our engagements on call to actions, go up, as we see that we’re more specifically hitting the right person. So whether DIY Jean, you’re going to go broader to get a broader reach, or you’re going to get niche down, there’s not a right or a wrong there. I think the principle we’re coming back to is make sure you’re getting in front of the right people. And if you go really narrow, that might be a small group, but that’s fine. I love serving those people because I can help those people with 10,000 plus subscribers. If I can help each of them reach one million people a month from their channel.

Tim Schmoyer:

And our goal is by 2025 to work with 10,000, what we call life changers, creators who have like a mission behind what they’re doing. That’s over 10 billion touch points every single month that people will have with a messages that could potentially impact their lives, so that’s our goal. Not necessarily to be, have the biggest YouTube education channel on the platform, anything like that. So it’s not a mistake either way. It’s just go one way or the other, but go intentionally and strategically rather than just like, I just want more views so let me try to broaden my reach. That could be a better way of reaching no one specifically as well, so that’s not necessarily the right direction to go. I think I just beat that one to death.

Dane Golden:

But I want to add that it didn’t really change your core mission of your channel, which was to help people do video better and change lives for the better and you’re still doing that. You’re just doing a different flavor of that.

Tim Schmoyer:

Right. Russell Beck asks, “I have a business question, how much does YouTube take from an advertising companies ads in percentage?”

Dane Golden:

In advertising, do you think that they mean-

Tim Schmoyer:

They take 100% of it, don’t they? Like your entire ad spend.

Dane Golden:

Do you think that they’re talking about monetization rates? Like are they talking from the creator’s perspective?

Tim Schmoyer:

I’m not sure. Let’s answer both real quick. So if you are the creator, typically look at your agreement, but it’s typically a 45, 55% split, 55 to you, 45% to YouTube. But if you’re talking about how much did YouTube take from an advertising ads in percentage, they take 100% of whatever the company pays them. And then if some of those ads then surface on your content, then YouTube will give you 55% of that ad revenue. Assuming you don’t have any other copyright holders or MCNs or other types of hands that would be getting a cut of that revenue too. Did I answer that one, you think?

Dane Golden:

I think so.

Tim Schmoyer:

All right, Tommy Bernhard, thank you for super chat. It says, “How would you target an audience for a live talk show like Howard Stern-ish type material? No real keywords, just a live show about our lives, thanks.”

Dane Golden:

I think that this is it when they say target, I think this is an ad question.

Tim Schmoyer:

That’s what I think. Yeah. What how would you do that?

Dane Golden:

I think it’s very difficult to do ads that target live shows. And we really are not advocating too much paid media. And you and I have had conversations with this over long periods of time that the trying to use paid media to amplify your views is a fraud tactic. There are some very, very niche methods, but usually that’s not really the way to go.

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. So I would not do that. If you’re talking about organic content, Tommy, how would you target an audience like that? I think it really comes down to, this is a really broad, but for the sake of our conversation here, I would just be like, what story does … like really know who your target audience is. Not like anyone who likes Howard Stern, but get it, is it a person, or is an age, he was living this type of lifestyle, with the type of story, has these types of problems, these types of hopes and dreams, like all that, get to know this person. And then what stories would resonate most with that person. And then think of the title and thumbnail that that person would click and watch that really tease the story, creates a lot of tension in the brain, makes them think like what happens … that’s what Howard Stern does a lot.

Tim Schmoyer:

So a lot of like, “That, for real?” Or “How did that work?” Or is like, “That can’t be true,” or whatever. Right? And I guess on the click and then go and tell those stories after you kind of determine the title and thumbnail will be of the story that’s being pitched for someone in that target audience. So hope that helps. String player gamer, thank you for the $5 super chat. “Hey Tim and Dane, I love your teachings. I’ve been struggling to regain momentum in YouTube, 145,000 subs, but it feels like 10,000. I do pure music videos.” What do you think Dane? It’s a little bit off topic, but what would you say here to help him?

Dane Golden:

Yeah. I mean, so there’s a whole bunch of … I really have more questions than answers. And the question is, does that mean they are doing covers? Does that mean they’re doing their own music? Are they teaching music? What is their goal? Where did they come from? Did they have like 145,000 subs that were all for one video that wasn’t theirs? I don’t really have anything to add on that.

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. I think what I would say without looking at your channel is that it’s probably unclear what the value is and who the value is for. So if it’s just pure music videos, you’re in a pretty crowded space and you’re going to need to stand out, not by making better music videos, whatever better means. But by creating a brand that resonates with people and people are like, oh, I love that person’s story. I love their struggles. I connect with that person thus I like their music. So it’s going back to those primal branding elements that we didn’t talk about here, but check out the book, Primal Branding by Patrick Hanlon and I think that will help you a lot.

Tim Schmoyer:

Got a follow up here really quick from Eugen C Popa. “Hey, I read on Google website that they pay the creator channel 68% of what the advertiser is paying, is that 68% or 55%?” It does vary from channel to channel and not significantly, most are at the 45, 55 split, but there are different channels who could be in like YouTube … oh, I’m drawing a blank, Google preferred that would have a different agreement, different revenue split agreement with YouTube, different pay rates there. So there are different types of tiers. And if you’re within MCN, then that would be different because they’re managing the ads for you in that regard. So that’s why it’s the best just look at your contract with ad sense. But most of the time it’s 45/55. Is that your understanding Dane?

Dane Golden:

Yeah, but Tim will take you one more, we’ll talk about what you always talk about is, why spend most of your time worrying about ads? Why don’t you make your own product? Why don’t you make an eBook or a course or something, and this is what you advocate Tim and get 100%?

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. We actually just switched this quarter, is our first quarters as a business. We are no longer relying on revenue outside our core products. So our core products-

Dane Golden:

You’re doing ads still though?

Tim Schmoyer:

Well yeah, we’ll take it, but I am never banking on it. Like I’m not including it in part of our revenue reports anymore because I don’t control it. It’s just kind of a pass at the weather. And that would include things like affiliate revenue, ad sense revenue, sponsorships, and brand deal revenue, speaking gigs revenue, and any of those types of things.

Dane Golden:

You did your book right from the start when you started your channel. I recall it was almost right from the beginning you said I’m going to sell a book.

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. I made a mistake with my blog prior to starting Video Creators is I made everything free because I wanted to help people. I had a full-time job, I didn’t need to charge for it. I just wanted to help people to giving off for free. And then I realized two things. One, giving things for free people … if you give it to them for free, they don’t value it as much. They don’t actually take the time to dive into it, but if you charge people, then they’re more likely to commit to the process and actually get the results that they want, which now you’re actually helping people better.

Tim Schmoyer:

And two, three, I don’t know what number I’m on, but it was, I know I needed to make this sustainable. I couldn’t just give as much as I was giving to my other project before Video Creators as much and be able to make a sustainable long term. It just wasn’t working out. I couldn’t do it with a family and things like that. So I started actually crowdfunding that because I wanted to test my ideas first and like, I don’t want to make this if no one’s going to buy it.

Tim Schmoyer:

So coming from publishing world, where I had published a few books in my previous niche with Youth and Family Work that they gave me an advance upfront. And I thought this time, I don’t want to do the publishing route. I want to self-publish, but let me get my “Advance” from my audience and see if they’ll buy this. So let me test if the sale will work before I put all the time into it and then realize it won’t sell. So I did a crowdfunding campaign, hit the goal, got my advance, wrote it, published it. Then it’s been gone through a few iterations, but it’s been our number one seller even this day, seven years later, 30 days on our YouTube channel.

Dane Golden:

Amazing.

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. We sell like hundreds of those a month which has been awesome. So yeah, we’re just doing off our core products and services now like that, the ones that we control, the ones that we offer, we actually deliver and taking anything else as just icing on the cake if and when it comes.

Dane Golden:

Can I say in the side about this podcast as a fan of this podcast?

Tim Schmoyer:

Sure. Depends on what you’re going to say, but go ahead.

Dane Golden:

I was an insider talking to you as you brought on D’Laina and Lennon and I just love hearing them on the podcast. They are so knowledgeable and are clearly helping so many people, I just love hearing them with you talk about how you’re helping people.

Tim Schmoyer:

Yeah. Well, they’ll be back next week but they’re taking the day off, so you and I can hang out.

Dane Golden:

They deserve it.

Tim Schmoyer:

So we’re thankful for it.

Dane Golden:

They deserve it.

Tim Schmoyer:

We got one more question, kind of on my last note that I just talked about from Missouri Valley Saddlery and Outfitters. “Should someone finish a 30 days to better YouTube channel course before doing a paid consultation?” I would say yes, because one, the course is cheaper and two, you can work through it at your own pace and you’ll get a lot more information from the course than we can cram into an hour conversation with you. We really, I do think, and I don’t say this just because it’s my product or our company or anything, but people are usually genuinely shocked and surprised how much we’re able to move forward and unpack in only one hour talking about their channels, like multiple light bulb moments, multiple like long list of action steps.

Tim Schmoyer:

And people come in thinking they’re going to have like a once a week call and they’re like, it’s going to take me three to six months to do all this. We’re like, perfect, great, come back whenever you’re ready. So I would say go through 30 days about a YouTube channel first, if you haven’t already. And then and any of you guys who aren’t familiar with it go to videocreators.com/30days and you can start that course and work through that material. Every day we’ll give you a training, something you need to know. It’ll give you tasks that you need to do that day, action steps on your channel to move those things forward and then links to further resources if you really want to dive in, all with the goal of optimizing and designing a channel that’s positioned perfectly for growth on YouTube, optimized for more subscribers and more views.

Tim Schmoyer:

Most people tend to work through it. If they really dive in and work on it pretty hard, they tend to cram the 30 days in about 14 days. But you can go through it at your own pace if you’d like. So yeah. Hope that answers that question. Well, Dane, if people want to find out more about you, where would they go?

Dane Golden:

They can follow me on LinkedIn, but also check out our new service at vidtarget.io, where we help you do YouTube ads simpler and cheaper, more targeted.

Tim Schmoyer:

Cool. And just so you guys know this is not sponsored. Dane did not pay me to be here, I’d asked him based on the value that he-

Dane Golden:

That’s nice of you.

Tim Schmoyer:

… he brings every single time, so I get no commission from that whatsoever. I just think like whatever Dane does is something worth checking out. So you guys check him out.

Dane Golden:

Thank you. Thank you.

Tim Schmoyer:

And there’s a link to that in the show notes if you guys were listening to the podcast want to catch up on that. Thank you, Eric, from Modern Day Tech for moderating all this. And I’m sure you guys got his hands cramping up with trying to keep all your questions in front of us, but really appreciate each of you guys hanging out. If you are in the podience, Dane as a visitor, what do you think about being a physical parenthetical note, real quick, podience, unprofessional or funny and humorous or whatever.

Dane Golden:

You’ve been asking this for a long time.

Tim Schmoyer:

I know, I keep getting mixed signals.

Dane Golden:

I think it’s funny and knowing how many kids you had in diapers for a long time, potty was probably on your mind for a while, but I am not a fan of the word podience.

Tim Schmoyer:

Well, Dane is not in the podience, but if any of you guys are, you can join us every Monday at 2:00 PM Eastern time at YouTube.com/videocreators, where we do live stream these and we get to answer your questions and get to know you and you get to join a whole chat of other people who are hanging out with us and answering each other’s questions and helping each other out while we go through this. So we’d love to see you guys, if you want to come hang out with us.

Tim Schmoyer:

So Dane, thank you for sharing your advice and experience with us here. And we will see all the rest of you guys next time for another Video Creators podcast episode. See you guys next week. Bye.